Desktop PC - is this terminal?

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Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:53 pm

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This is / was still happening - viewtopic.php?f=9&t=18736 - but as it calmed down once the PC was warmed up, I assumed it was just a LCD screen issue, as Pers said.

However, since this morning (for wife/children twice, now for me), the PC is effectively completely dead.

On pressing the power on button, no beeps at all. Case/mobo/gfx/power supply fans are all spinning, but nothing else seems to be running. After a while the monitor gives up trying to detect either an anologue or digital signal. Also, the power button is then unresponsive and can't be used to reset or power off.

The PC is only a couple of months shy of 5 years old and has only had a gfx card changed in it, but was originally of sound components (corsair power supply, asus mobo, etc) given it was Larchy built!

I've had the side off and checked whether any of the memory modules has been unseated (nope), but that's almost the extent of my self checking skills.

The system spec is:
ASUS P5B
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
4x1MB adata DDR800
Western Digi 500Gb 16Mb SATA2 HDD
Corsair HX520W PSU
ATi HD6870 1GB gfx card
ASUS DVD Writer and Rom

Is it time to follow the guidance on threads like this - http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/244 ... doesn-boot - and reduce to 1 strip of memory and see if it boots, etc?

Right now, my working life is so hectically and not positively busy, that fault finding this is not something that I'm looking forward to at all.

Any guidance would be really really appreciated!

I had been at the point of considering whether the next upgrade was to a Mac (wife's preference) or a pc (mine) and had planned to only wait a short time to resolve, so was hoping to not have to spend a mint on this one, but such is life!

chairs.
d

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:10 pm

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After reading this - http://en.kioskea.net/forum/affich-2722 ... s-not-boot

I removed all 4 memory modules and tried to restart, but again, heard no beeps at all.

Does that mean, as it says in that thread, that if there's no beeps when I have no memory inserted that the mobo is fuxored?

And if that's so, suggestions?

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby DrKazza on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:30 am

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feign wrote:After reading this - http://en.kioskea.net/forum/affich-2722 ... s-not-boot

I removed all 4 memory modules and tried to restart, but again, heard no beeps at all.

Does that mean, as it says in that thread, that if there's no beeps when I have no memory inserted that the mobo is fuxored?

And if that's so, suggestions?



when you say you hear no beeps... do the fans whirr up?
if fans spin up but no beeps then mobo or CPU is fkd (doesn't really matter because it's so old that you'd have to replace both or neither)

if the fans don't even spin up then there's a slim chance that it's the PSU that's fkd but it could also be the Mobo/CPU


as for a mac... they are FKING lovely, and as long as you only want to play wow & D3 (which i know you do) then it's perfect. But you'll spend at least twice what you would on a new pc... if you can afford it, then do it.

BUT YOU MUST GET AN SSD for your OS whatever system you go for
That's The REVEREND Dr. Kazza to you.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby DrKazza on Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:34 am

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Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby jhartelt on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:13 pm

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DrKazza wrote:
feign wrote:BUT YOU MUST GET AN SSD for your OS whatever system you go for
While an SSD will be a great boost to system performance, its lifespan seems to be much shorter than that of a common hard disc: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2011/05/the-hot-crazy-solid-state-drive-scale.html

EDIT:
This is no advise against buying SSDs, even the author of that Blog immediately bought a new one after his first one failed. It is just something to keep in mind. And perhaps develop a backup strategy :)

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:20 pm

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DrKazza wrote:when you say you hear no beeps... do the fans whirr up? YES, fans whirr, no beeps at all


if fans spin up but no beeps then mobo or CPU is fkd (doesn't really matter because it's so old that you'd have to replace both or neither)

if the fans don't even spin up then there's a slim chance that it's the PSU that's fkd but it could also be the Mobo/CPU

as for a mac... they are FKING lovely, and as long as you only want to play wow & D3 (which i know you do) then it's perfect. But you'll spend at least twice what you would on a new pc... if you can afford it, then do it.

BUT YOU MUST GET AN SSD for your OS whatever system you go for


so, that would mean mobo/cpu, which as you say, is pretty much rebuild time.

so, my options would be:
1) Get an imac, but the only one with a gfx card newer than a Ati 6770 (which is an old tech card!) is the top of the range one at £1500 (bit less as teacher discount available I guess). Macrumours says not to buy imacs now, given the refresh is due in about 3 months, but I will need to sort something out before then, or I could just live on my work laptop...
2) Go for a prebuilt system, from somewhere like - http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ - the benefit of scan's place, is I could skip the GFX card, as the Ati 6870 which I have should be ok (easiest way to check without a desktop pc to pop it in?). So something like this - http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ConfigureSystem.asp?SystemID=1209 taking off the Gfx card (they can sell and test it without one, I assume!), but adding a 60Gb corsair SSD and upgrading to a 1Tb Wd hdd, puts me at just over £800.
3) Find somewhere to put a new mobo/cpu/memory into my current case, using the case/dvd drives/gfx card. And probably move to W7. Any thoughts whether this is worthwhile to consider? I'd be considering this as a temp solution, as if it was south of £450, it would allow me to put the extra away towards swapping wife's current laptop (also on it;s last legs being 5 years old) for a macbook of some sort.

and yes Kaz, I guess I do have the money right now, but my company/job isn't that stable right now - start-up company doing another re-financing rights issue currently - so I'm trying to avoid bleeding cash anymore than I have to!

On games, I guess I could live with access to only wow and d3, but it'b be less than ideal, and I see little point in buying an imac then setting it up to dual boot just for gaming, which seems pretty pointless. Maybe I should be biting the bullet and just making the mac transition now, but being able to play whatever you want on the PC is appealing...

cheers for the help/input.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby DrKazza on Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:48 am

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here's what I'm thinking.

If you buy an Imac (lets pretend it's not a bad time to buy) then your wife will want to use it and you'll be on "her" computer playing games when she wants to browse frankie vaughn.

lets assume you just need to replace the innerds... no need to pay for a new case PSU dvd etc etc if you don't need to.
I would probably look at:
http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ConfigureSystem.asp?SystemID=1295 ... tick the box for Windows 7 and get an SSD:
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/60gb-cor ... s-80k-iops
and a 1TB Hdd and you're looking at 570 quid, not sure if you need the 1tb also.

Then you can scoop your missus a macbook pro at some point in the future, and if you're really bored when your monitor goes then you can get an imac at a later date. i THINK that your gfx card should have a mini-display port output so you could even use the imac as a monitor for the output of your pc. (I'm trying to get mine to work but have had to use a dvi->minidisplay adaptor... need to sit down with it at some point. It may be easier just to scoop a new gfx card with minidisplay out!)

Unless you really want a new system and not have to install it yourself, i don't see the need to pay for the extras
That's The REVEREND Dr. Kazza to you.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:29 pm

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Wife does 95% of her PC use (browsing, shopping, and teacher prep work) from a lap-top and most of that is in front of the TV, so the imac would be a waste really, at least right now, maybe next time I need to do a refresh I'll have less need for windows due to no interest in any games, but I'll believe that when I see it.

The plan I'd formulated last night was to keep the case and hdd (once stripped of all documents!) to one side, for a summer project to rebuild from scratch with Lewis (he's doing a website design course as part of gifted and talented extension work, so my and him learning how to put a pc together from scratch may help him understand that there's <slightly> more to pc's than games.)

So basically, all I was planning to use was the gfx card from the old pc (as well as the peripherals like monitor/speakers/mouse/kb).

The items that you put in that mobo/mem/

This would mean that as well as what you put on that link, I'd need (I think):
- the 60gb ssd for os
- a 1 tb hdd for data (had 500gb, but it was full without even using itunes for film/tv)
- case
- w7/64 (currently i have vista, which i'd rather crater the discs than re-install)
- dvd drive

When I look for something like that, all the scan system sseem to require me to have either an Ati or nV card installed (I can deselect, but it says "if no Ati, need nV").

any thoughts? Or elsewhere like pcspecialist/chillblast that people would suggest?

Either that or I can just bite the bullet and try the build my own using the parts you suggested, but I'll be needing a decent how to, either in form of a blog or book I'm guessing!

***edit***
Ok, getting more interested in just biting the bullet and building the new PC myself using the core that you linked. does this cover the main pieces - http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_To_Ass ... C/Assembly.

I'm assuming that the case that I have is ok - Antec NSK4000 chassis

So in that case, all I'd need to add to the system you' linked would be the things you said, ssd/1 Tb for non-os storage / copy of windoze and teh time and tolerance to put it all together.

If you can confirm that, I may even get ordering tonight...it'll give me something to start researching while away with work for teh next week adn half.

chairs.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby LSM on Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:19 pm

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Sounds like you'd be better to get your gaming rig and then a Mac laptop for the misses, based on Kazza's advice. You'd probably be able to achieve that for a similar budget for getting a decent powered iMac.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby DrKazza on Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:11 pm

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you're weird... you say in one breath that you're keeping the case and then the next that you're ditching it.


Anyway for 99% of pc building all you need is a screwdriver (or 2) and the innerds.
you should be able to cannibalise the following from your dead rig:

1) CASE
2) DVD
3) PSU
4) GFX Card

then you need to buy
5) Mobo
6) CPU
7) HSF
8) Memory
9) Windows 7
10) SSD for OS
11) 1TB HDD
12) You may need some power cable adaptors... open your current pc and have a look.

5,6,7,8 and 9 can be got from this link in one bundle
http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ConfigureSystem.asp?SystemID=1295
doesn't have a case or any of that stuff.

10 is the other link i posted

for cable checking.... have a look at the current power going to the motherboard and compare it to the adaptor on the new mobo to check your psu is transferrable... if it is then you need to check the other plugs... you may need one for the graphics card, you'll need 3 small power things for the hdds and one large one for the DVD

OK you don't need a grounding cable... just don't do it in a woolen sweater... just touch a radiator if you get nervous about static.

The thing about assembling a PC is that the motherboard manual is usually totally comprehensive... read it. TWICE.

a) clean your case... get rid of all the fluff and crap, clean the case fans and grilles
b) when you took your old motherboard out you should have noticed some risers which lift the mobo up off the back plate... they look like this
you want to check your new motherboard's holes and put them in the right position.There should be 9 in total
c) before you put the motherboard in place you want to put the backplate in, which should be a flimsy bit of metal for all the USB ports etc.
-- I usually do the next few steps on the squidgy packaging that comes with the motherboard... it's insulated and it has some give --
d) Now carefully put in the cpu into the motherboard.
e) now apply the thermal paste... whatever you just put on, take half of it off! you need a really thin even layer. 2 good ways of applying it are with a credit card to scrape it across, or put your hand in a plastic bag and use the bag to smear it around. (check with scan that some thermal paste comes with the bundle!)
f) now put the HSF onto the motherboard. Assembly instructions vary massively, just be firm with any screws but don't go all arnie on it.
g) Now put the memory in... depending on the idiocy of the motherboard & size of HSF you may need to swap steps f and g
h) now firmly push the motherboard into the backplate and gently lower the mobo onto the risers. Screw in the risers so that the motherboard is secure. again firm but not bruteforce... remember this needs to sit vertically so it needs to be stable.
i) Plug in the PSU onto the motherboard
j) Plug in the SSD, 1TB HDD and DVD (and their respective PSUs) - leave your old hdd separate for now
k) plug in the Case jumpers... it's hard to say which way round they go, but just consult the manual... don't worry, the reset and power switches can be either way round... the LEDs do care but if you get them the wrong way round it won't break anything just swap them round.
l) plug in the USB cables, these will only go one way round
m) plug in the graphics card (and power to it if applicable)

Plug in the power to the PSU and the monitor to the gfx card, kb, mouse and press the power button and hope for the best

it's all super easy, but your heart will be doing 145 when you first POST

there's a good chance I forgot something but someone else can correct
That's The REVEREND Dr. Kazza to you.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:20 pm

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The case was something that I rather flim-flamed on, so I can understand why I didn't come across clearly.

When I initially considered it all, I was looking to buy a pre-built unit and just throw in my current gfx card, and then use the bits I had left - case/dvd/ - for another pc build project with Lewis. But, then it rather hit me, that when I do a build for him, it needs to be in a much smaller case. Hence the view that even if it takes me longer to get back properly online, it makes sense to do it this way!

And I really appreciate the guidance!

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby DrKazza on Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:39 am

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de nada pendejo
That's The REVEREND Dr. Kazza to you.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Thu Feb 16, 2012 7:31 pm

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DrKazza wrote:de nada pendejo


http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... CCMQrgYwAA

=anything stupid?

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Thu Feb 16, 2012 11:43 pm

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Ok, so shopping list of:

A) http://3xs.scan.co.uk/ConfigureSystem.a ... emID=1295#
= 5) Mobo, 6) CPU, 7) HSF, 8) Memory, 9) W7
£423

B) http://www.scan.co.uk/products/60gb-cor ... s-80k-iops
= 10) SSD for OS
£68

c) http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1tb-west ... -8ms-quiet
= 11) 1 TB HDD
£88

(have 1) CASE, 2) DVD, 3) PSU, 4) GFX Card from previous rig)

Total = £579

(Which is about 120 notes cheaper than a similar full system built on chillblast)

Anything I'm missing? (and yes, I'll give them a ring to check there's some thermal silver paste in with the bundle!)

Cheers

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby DrKazza on Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:35 am

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de nada... literally means "It's nothing" ... == no worries... no probs.
pendejo = fool/idiot/stupid/my really good friend.

basically no problem buddy

A) YES
B) YES
C) YES

remember to check you have adequate power supply cables for the HDD and that the motherboard power cables will fit. You should be ok but no need to put yourself in a fix.
The Mobo should come with loads of Sata cables.
That's The REVEREND Dr. Kazza to you.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby larchy on Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:52 am

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Switch it off at the wall/pull the power lead out;
Clear the CMOS by either popping the battery out for 30 secs or setting the clear CMOS jumper;
See if it works.

Worth a punt, but it's sounding like CPU or the board are faulty.

2500K - £171.77
P8H67 - £82.58
8GB Crucial 1600MHz 1.5V - £29.00

Total - £284.34

Should be very straighforward and if you need a hand feel free to gimme a call m8, number is still the same.

Personally I'd grab a Crucial M4 purely because the Marvell controller is generally to be held to be more robust and stable than the Sandforce based drives. However YMMV. I'd also have a think about the capacity - it's about £1 per GB and 60GB is going to get gobbled up very quickly indeed as soon as you start putting games on there... which is where you want them. It's not a massive price jump to 128GB which has a lot more breathing room.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:23 pm

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To that list Larchy I'd need to add thermal paste and a copy of W7. And then a larger disc for data - the old 500gb was usually pretty full, and it seems like a little risk to be using a 5 year old drive for a new install, hence I was planning on using a new 1 tb one, and the old 500gb one to backup data to.

For pulling all the data off the 500gb (music and documents totaling ~150gb I guess, the rest being OS, office and game installs that I'll need to discard and start over), is it something like this I should be using - http://www.ebuyer.com/260634-sumvision- ... -sv-apexii - to extract the data

I wasn't 100% sure if the case I had would have the correct spacers/racks to hold the SSD, given it was from an era before SSD's. I'm very happy to go for the larger ssd, as having room for a couple of game installs as well as the OS on that drive is cool. As well as never having done the pc build myself before, I've also never done a windows install, which I doubt is a major concern, but is there anything I need to do special to split the installation onto the 2 drives, as I won;t want ms orifice or stuff like that installed on the ssd, unless i have to...

I'm not back at home until at Weds/Thurs, so will check the cmos/battery options then, and if there's no joy, I'll be putting all my orders in then.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby larchy on Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:49 pm

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You don't need paste, the HSF is included with thermal compound pre-applied.

The drives Kaz suggested are what I would too.

The only issue mounting SSDs is as most are 2.5" only very new cases are starting to have small enough bays for them. That said, they have no moving parts and are light with virtually no heat output... so sellotape the thing somewhere if you want tbh.

You don't need an external drive enclosure... just connect the drive up to the new motherboard. You can even just leave it in there as spare storage unless you have another use in mind for it.


Windows install - just put the dvd in the drive and setup will start if the drive is blank. It's very straightforward. There's a driver disc with the board if you need anything that Windows doesn't pick up.

Just install any programs you don't want on C: onto your second drive - presumably D: - there's nothing special to do. If you have a few steam games you'll probably want some on your SSD for speed, but may find you need a bit of space after a while. this tool allows you to create a folder on a different drive and move any steam game to that drive from your main steam folder. It's quick, easy and totally transparent to steam. It's great for moving older games you don't play much anymore to a spare drive without deleting them from steam. Just an idea if you use steam a lot.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby feign on Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:38 pm

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Don't I need to reformat the old 500gb drive though, as it currently has Vista OS on it, and all that inherent file structure, as well as games/docs/music. I assumed I'd have to pull that stuff off it, reformat and then pop it into the new build, if I used it, and that was the point at which it just seemed to be more sensible to just get a new drive to transfer the data to. If in fact I could just drop it in as is, as a D: storage disc, then just delete off it the bits unneeded (as the new OS will be on the new ssd, etc), that would get me up and running more quickly.

Re: Desktop PC - is this terminal?

Postby larchy on Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:13 am

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Since it's your first time (ohh matron) I'd advise getting the new drive in with W7 on it, then just plugging in the old 500GB drive once everything is up and running; then keep what you want, delete the rest.

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