Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

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Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby DrKazza on Tue Jan 07, 2014 5:53 pm

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just had a bit of a eureka moment... wasn't in the bath though.

So the current problem is that you have a change of government, they spend 2 years blaming the last lot, spend 1 year doing stuff and then spend 2 years doing things (or promising to do things) purely to ensure re-election. You don't really have the chance to see a government try to do something for the good of the country and then for the people responsible to be in office long enough to reap the glory/shoulder the blame.

How about this.
A party is elected for a tenure of 10 years....
after 4.5 years there's a referendum "do you want a general election?" if there's a 66% majority yes then you hold an election after 5 years, otherwise they carry on with the job in hand.
that way they really get a chance to do something with a long term view, but if it goes all gordon brown then you can still get rid of the muppets.
That's The REVEREND Dr. Kazza to you.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby Twisted on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:46 pm

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Add in the ability to shoot/castrate (or maybe hang draw and quarter...I'm old fashioned like that) them when they do fuck it all up and I'm in.
Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand.

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Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby Klors on Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:57 pm

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Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby LSM on Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:37 pm

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Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby iPad on Tue Jan 07, 2014 10:27 pm

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America (the home of functional politics!) elects various parts of its various houses every two years, so power flows between the parties more often. I can see (on a hypothetical level) the advantage of being accountable more often.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby phatb0y on Wed Jan 08, 2014 12:00 pm

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I'm all for this.

We're incapable of self-rule. Put a machine in charge.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby Refugee on Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:35 pm

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Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby Cacker on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:13 pm

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Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby iPad on Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:57 pm

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phatb0y wrote:I'm all for this.

We're incapable of self-rule. Put a machine in charge.


I've played this game. Epic. As dystopian futures go, being ruled by a mad computer is one of the worst.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby larchy on Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:26 pm

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The issue you have with long term office holding is corruption and an inability to change and adapt to new circumstances.

Aristotle discusses this in "Politics", where he identifies the principal forms of government and their pros/cons. A Despotism/absolute ruler/feudal is fine for continuity/stability in the short term, can be very reactive, but very poor in terms of corruption, change, equality, social development, longer term stability etc. A Legislature/meritocracy form is good at regulating corruption but is terrible for getting anything done and is unresponsive to change. Finally a Democracy with elected officials is subject to mob rule, the marginalisation of minorities, decisions made for short term gains with no longer term view.

Over the centuries many variations have been tried. Rome had a head of state/absolute ruler figure in Caesar, but also a senate, the idea being the two forms would balance out the excesses of the other. Didn't work out too great, but at the time was one of the longest lasting systems.

We've had a constitutional monarchy for a long time, with the power of the monarch subsumed by the Prime Minister who is a bit of an oddball in terms of the absolute ruler figure as he also controls the democratic side via majority control in the commons. The Lords was supposed to be the long-term legislative balance to the commons, reviewing all legislation and with hereditary peers the body should take the long view insulated from popular short term views. Blair shafted the Lords and removed this effective oversight, so the short-termism of the commons is all we have at the moment.


As has already been mentioned America has a system of different forms, intending to be weights and balances of the different forms. The founding fathers were all classically educated and based the system of government around the principles established by Aristotle. The President fills the role of an absolute ruler, allowing direction and reaction to situations as they arise. The House of representatives is elected every 2 years to respond to populist short term issues, filling the role of the democratic form. Congress has 6 year terms, with 1/3rd up for election every 2 years, allowing gradual change and the reducing impact of short term issues on the makeup of the body which plays the role of the legislature and long term viewpoint. Each body is supposed to act as a balance and check on the other two, so that no one body could overpower the others and abuse their office, as happened with Rome.

The founding fathers also attempted to get rid of party politics, intending that each and every elected official would be elected on their own merits, not because they were part of a party machine. Only the charisma of Washington held that in check, and the Republicans and Federalists formed in the very early days of the USA's history... so not everything worked to plan; the electoral college was shown to be pointless from day one.


At the end of the day though, things like the sub-prime loans crisis were very well known about years in advance; Brown happily went along with the same deregulation in the UK as in the states following the final death throws of Glass-Steagall, and lo and behold we're back to 1929 only a few years later. When the general public and media don't give a shit about any of that and are more interested in fatuous morons on reality TV, that's the real reason politicians get away with doing whatever the fuck they want and the rest of us just have to try and survive.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby DrKazza on Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:25 am

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Didn't know a lot of that actually... very interesting food for thought

cheers larch
That's The REVEREND Dr. Kazza to you.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby Mr.Blonde on Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:22 pm

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DrKazza wrote:Didn't know a lot of that actually... very interesting food for thought

cheers larch


2nded - it's inspired me to do a bit more research. Particularly interesting that the good ole US of A was founded upon such well founded principles but has turned out... well... like it has.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby Defrag on Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:42 am

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Just listening at Gideon talking about "hard choices" makes me seethe. The only hard choice that cunt has ever had to make is whether to have braised lamb or kick a poor person to death. Or both. A man whose only work experience involved folding towels and typing dead people's names into a computer is ... in charge of our economy. I wonder if it's 'cause his family is rich, or whether he got there on merit?

I fucking, fucking, fucking hate the tories. I especially hate the just-world bollocks Cameron espouses -- you'd think that all you have to do is work hard and you'll end up doing great, just like every one of the Bullingdon Club and the various elites and millionaires running the country. The way things are framed, you'd think our entire country is being drained and ruined by work shy bastards. Meanwhile, in reality, most of the benefits that are paid out go to pensioners and the working poor. If you actually look at the statistics, a relatively small amount goes on the long-term unemployed.

Someone jumps in front of a bus because of the bedroom tax and the government "doesn't talk about specific incidents", yet the Philpotts are name-checked by Osborne & IDS while they're planning massive cuts to the welfare state. The current best guess is that benefit fraud sits at less than one percent. Can't say I recall hearing about many (any?) bankers or regulators going to jail for plunging the entire country in the mire, though. Similarly, all but the most egregious MP expense claims were simply paid back -- no fines, no court dates. We had fun flaying them in the papers for a few months, but now what? Over and done with. If you're poor and you do something wrong, you're vilified. If you're rich, it's another story (also see: amount of focus placed on benefit costs vs. tax evasion amongst the haves).

The media is shockingly compliant these days, too. I can't remember the last time I heard anything other than propaganda being regurgitated. Repeat something enough times and it becomes the norm -- nobody questions it; people just accept it. The worst that happens is that folk get mildly irritated now and then. For example, some people are a touch miffed that a (profit making!) company in the Royal Mail has been privatised. The discussion on the news hasn't been to do with universal access and reasonable pricing. Oh no. The discussion has been framed around the price the government got for it. Give it ten years (if that) and the post office will be exempt from the stipulations that are in place at the moment. Someone in the sticks will be charged up the arse because "it's not realistic" to bind a company to such uncompetitive rules. Just wait. But nobody cares about that. Cities, yeah?

Social mobility in the UK has gone backwards since the 70s (we're now one of the worst of the developed world in this respect) and the arse is now being ripped out of the NHS, welfare and justice systems etc. Everything is being stripped and, when public institutions begin to buckle, privatisation is apparently the answer. It also makes me spit blood when I see many of the very people who were able to benefit from a free university education doing their best to rescind that right. Nick Clegg! If only you were in a position to actually have some influence on government policies! Oh. Pissed it all up against the wall for nothing.

Smiling MPs opening food banks, seemingly oblivious as to what this signifies. Dear oh dear.

I particularly liked the tories' idea to put legal aid out to the lowest bidder and/or randomly assign legal counsel because they claimed people were receiving a service that was above the required level. The free market is great, apart from when they decide it's not. Same shit with house prices which are now being artificially pumped up to keep middle class, middle-aged voters happy. No cunt is building any houses. The people who benefit from high house prices are people who own multiple houses, older folk who have a lot of their cash tied up in their property and... dead people (and, by extension, their relatives).

Even worse than all of this is that labour meekly looks on, saying little or even agreeing with some of the proposals. I'm not typing this for any particular reason other than I absolutely despair. And to think, I was quite laid back about politics. Urgh. Labour have a lot to answer for, but this lot are even worse. We're barrelling towards an American style of 'egalitarianism' in all aspects of society.

All I have left to cling to is the hope for a yes vote in Scotland. Salmond may look like he tosses himself off to his own political speeches, but I can't picture him thrashing a tramp with a cudgel. That places the SNP head and shoulders above the alternatives. Doubt we'll have the balls to do it, but it would be a step forward.

Happy new year!
Last edited by Defrag on Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby Klors on Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:53 pm

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Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby The-Bandido on Fri Feb 07, 2014 11:08 am

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Mr.Blonde wrote:
DrKazza wrote:Didn't know a lot of that actually... very interesting food for thought

cheers larch


2nded - it's inspired me to do a bit more research. Particularly interesting that the good ole US of A was founded upon such well founded principles but has turned out... well... like it has.

3rded. And yes I say that elements of the Tory party as well as some of their supporters, are either evil, mentally ill, terminally stupid, or a combination of the three.

Re: Far qme, I've just fixed UK politics

Postby Steev on Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:43 pm

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Klors wrote:http://www.ted.com/talks/paul_piff_does_money_make_you_mean.html


Interesting though I wonder how much it is also an American thing. Or an intelligence thing.


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